6. Sinister Spooks at The Thackray Museum – Halloween Special!
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Show Notes for Episode 6
Overview of Our Visit to The Thackray Museum
Episode 6 of the Scaredy Cat Skeptic podcast explores the sinister spooks at the Thackray Museum. And even see a few ourselves. This is an extra long, Halloween special, so cosy up in front of a crackling fire with a hot chocolate… or something a little stronger – you might need it!
Photos from the Thackray Museum Ghost Hunt
Full Gallery from The Thackray Museum
In this POdcast, we mentioned...
Emily Dewsnap, Scaredy Cat Skeptic Host
Emily Dewsnap is the host of the Scaredy Cat Skeptic podcast. She is a militant sceptic, despite growing up in a haunted house. This fascination with the occult has been a lifelong obsession... but that could just be the goth in her. Emily is also an artist by day, and drew Scaredy Cat mascot, Maud, up into the current form she takes today.
Tom Bramall, Character Artist
Tom Bramall is the character artist behind the Scaredy Cat Skeptic mascot character, Maud. He is also the partner of our host, Scaredy Cat, and spends a lot of time patiently listening to her ramble on about ghosts, so he deserves a heartfelt thanks. He has not experienced the midnight scrabbler. It's very annoying.
Stephen Rodriguez, Fellow Sceptic
Stephen is a Starbucks addict, What We Do in the Shadows fan, and has a hand in keeping the NHS running. So I guess you could call him a superhero. Stephen also recommended The Thackray to me, having had a strange experience at an NHS Christmas do that was held at one of the Thackray Museum's conference suites.
Some Promised Bits & Pieces
- REAL AMPUTATION VIDEO – Warning – this is not pleasant watching! This is the video I was talking about in the episode where I went really faint. I didn’t want to embed it, because it’s really difficult to watch. You can see the video here, if you really want to >>> https://www.tiktok.com/@mr.miami_uk/video/7033415039595990278
The spooky Tables in the Operating Theatre/Mortuary
Transcript - Episode 6: The Thackray Museum
Hello, spooky bitches. Welcome to this very special, very haunted episode of the Scaredy Cat Skeptic podcast. We are on number 6! We’ve been going for a whole six months. Huzzah! I’m Emily Dewsnap, sceptical Ghost hunter, doubter of the paranormal and thunderous yellowbelly. But you can call me Her Royal Highness., the Unholy Enchantress of the Horny… for that is my demon name.
As determined by the short quiz I put together for fun. Sadly, I didn’t check what mine would be before publishing it, so now I’m stuck with that one. And if you’ve ever seen my art, you probably could even say it’s somewhat apt. You can get your own demon name over on the Instagram Instagram page for the podcast @ScaredyCatSkeptic.
But I digress. Apologies – I don’t have a cold. I’m just getting over COVID. It was my first time and it was horrific. So I’m a little bit bunged up. I said last week that I’d be starting the podcast by talking about the spooky happenings in my life over the past month. Funnily enough, the spookiest stuff actually happened at this month’s haunted location, I think, which is the Thackeray Museum in Leeds.
Someone Who Used to Live in Our House Speaks Up - 00:01:35:12
So my friend Ellen used to live in the house I now live in. The kitchen door will often open and close itself in our flat. The kitchen, when it’s fully in our house, the kitchen door will often open and closed by itself. And even Tom has said that it will do it when it’s fully closed and slam shut when it’s been completely open. I assumed there was some sort of breeze happening that I couldn’t feel. But I asked Ellen if that used to happen when she lived here, and she was like: “No”.
So now I don’t know what to think. That’s been happening since I moved in nearly four years ago. The other day it was a warm, still day. It was that unseasonably warm day for autumn. Tom was in bed. I was working. And then just out of nowhere, the kitchen door absolutely slammed shut. There wasn’t even a breeze outside, which I found very odd.
Generally when it happens, I just say: “Stop that!” You know, just in cases. And then it won’t happen for a few days. It’s odd. But yeah, it has been happening a lot recently.
THe Midnight Scratchings Are Still Happening Too
If you listened last month, you’ll know that there has been a lot of scratching noises happening in the night while I’m in bed. They started very much on the other side of the bedroom door, but only when it was closed. So I’ve been leaving it open. But about two weeks ago, the noises started happening in the bedroom and the scratches now sound like they’re coming from either side of the bed as if something is scratching at the wardrobe doors. It’s not particularly loud, but it is clear.
So I’ve been ignoring it. And thank you to whoever invented earplugs. And talking of earplugs, there’s a whole new aural thing happening too. As in aural, as an ear, not oral as a mouth. So my whole life I’ve had these experiences where I get the sensation of someone whispering in my ear. It’s not just the sound of whispers. I feel warmth and a slight, slight dampness. You know that feeling when someone is really close to you and trying to tell you something with their hand cooked around your ear. You know, it’s kind of like a secret. So what I’m trying to tell you, if someone still, you know, like a secret, someone’s trying to tell you a secret.
I also get a strange cold feeling when the voices have stopped, like a rush of air over my skin. It always makes me feel really strange. Like someone has literally just been whispering into my ear. But I usually manage to put it out of my mind and carry on as if nothing has happened. As a sceptic, I usually chalk it down to brain farts of some description.
Is it a Mimic?
But lately this has been happening in bed and the voice hasn’t been saying any words. It’s just been making this strange shushing noise like it’s… it’s really… it’s really difficult to describe. Like… like… like when you see those memes where cats are licking themselves and the owners are going “Schlurp”. But Eva’s not in the room, and that’s not the weirdest thing either.
I recognise the voice, even though it’s just a shushing noise. And I recognise the voice… because it’s mine. And it’s not the voice I hear in my head, which is different to the voice that I hear when I’m recorded. It’s the voice I hear when I edit the podcast. It’s external to me and I can feel breath on my skin.
So I started Googling and came across a type of spirit that I actually find genuinely quite terrifying, for some reason. Could “the ghost” (and I’m saying that in inverted commas) in our flat be a mimic. I think the thing that’s scariest about mimics is that they have to be aware of their surroundings and what’s going on around them in order to operate, because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t know how other people sound. That and the fact that I can’t seem to escape gaslighting even from the dead. However, mimics are usually harmless, according to several people on the Internet. You know – they’re the most reliable people on the planet, surely.
If I was a Ghost
So, mimics are impish phantoms who basically float around trolling the living. And honestly, if I was a ghost, I’d do that exact thing. Drawing cocks in the stream on the bathroom mirror. Every day, just a more detailed penis. Hours of fun. You’re dead a long time, you know. How else would I pass the time?
But for the moment, we just have sounds and the occasional glimpse of something out of the corner finale. I can assure you I am wide awake when it’s happening. Like I’ve said, I wouldn’t even make note of something that happened while I was falling asleep or was woken up from sleep or anything like that.
And also, full disclosure, like I said, Tom and I have had COVID. We’ve never had it before. And I am so angry with people who keep saying it’s just too cold. We were so poorly. Both of us. I don’t even know what’s been happening in the last two weeks. All I’ve done is sat in a chair doing jigsaws on my iPad and sleeping because I just couldn’t function to do anything else.
But the shushing noise started the day before the COVID symptoms started. Even Tom was saying he’s had a weird tinnitus where he can hear rushing noises in his ears. It’s probably just the sound of his own blood rushing around his head. And that’s what Dr. Google seems to think. But it’s a strange coincidence.
So I’ve been diligently wearing my earplugs, even though I have stupid small canals and they don’t really fit. And that has meant that I can at least drift off to sleep, because I can’t hear the shushing noise anymore. But I am curious to know what’s going on. So any answers? Just email us. scaredycatsceptic@gmail.com. That’s skeptic with a K. Let me know what you think.
The Big 4-0
Friend of the podcast, Stephen Rodriguez has given me a belting birthday present on this theme.
Sure beats COVID, which was my other big birthday present, let me tell you. Happy birthday to me. But this is a Ouija board that is also a cheese board combining my two favourite things of all time cheese and witchy shit. It didn’t come with the planchette and I’m assuming it would be better if I didn’t craft one out of cheese. Bit sticky, wouldn’t move very easily. But I do have a pair of earrings that are planchettes.
So I’m going to give it a go and see if anything talks to me. My prediction is that nothing will happen, but if it does, I’ll be praying as hard as any atheist who hopes to a god. they don’t believe in that I’m wrong about the whole religion thing. I’m not proud. I’ll beg for my eternal soul. Although the gays are in hell, right? So, well, queer over here! Pansexual. Hello. I’m going to hell aren’t I. For fuck’s sake. I’ll keep you posted on what happens. Although the Ouija board has been in the kitchen for over a week now, actually, and the kitchen door’s been doing its thing. Spooky. Maybe they do work. Anyway, enough about me. On with the podcast.
The History of the Thackray Museum - 00:01:35:12
So back to the Thackray Museum. Here is a bit of history about our haunted location. As I mentioned, this month we visited the Thackray Museum of Medicine in Leeds. And Steven Rodriguez of the ouija board/cheeseboard fame came along for the ride.
I’ve lived in Leeds for 20 years this year, and not once have I set foot in this amazing and historic establishment. And it’s right on my doorstep. I’ve spent many a painful hour in A&E and it’s right next door! [bent both and is Jimmy’s unveiled guy.] Although I can’t imagine traipsing around a museum with kidney stones. Probably not much fun. But this infamously haunted building was chosen by listeners. That’s plural, because, Oh man, have I had a ton of emails from people requesting this as my next location and I’ve been saving it for Halloween.
It was also suggested by Ste, who had a strange experience on a work do.
[Ste’s recording]
He works for the NHS, so I was very grateful he allowed me to take him back to work on his day off.
the Thackray Museum Has Many Tales of Woe - 00:11:08:20
There are so many ghost stories about this place and I mean ghost stories from online. Ghosts that we can name, ghosts we don’t have any clue about. And then there are just tales from a lot of people who’ve just been to visit the museum as a museum. Not not done the ghost hunts or anything like that. It makes sense. It said that hospitals are the most haunted places on the planet. And the Thackery was a hospital for many years.
Incidentally, graveyards are one of the least haunted places. According to experts, in inverted commas. And that’s because. And that’s because hardly anyone dies in graveyards. Well, these days, at least if you’re interested in learning about how we used to bury people alive because we didn’t know all the vital signs of life. Head on over to the blog and read the post on the Highgate Vampire. I talk about safety coffins. And that awful time in London when we ran out of places to bury the dead.
It’s grim. You’ll love it. Perfect for Halloween. One of the ghosts that haunts the Thackeray museum is a very nasty witch. So I’ve included her backstory in this, too, because it’s fascinating and disturbing. It’s going to be a slightly longer episode, but then is the most wonderful time of year after all. And I’m talking about Halloween. I’ve also been sent more really banging ghost stories from some listeners.
So stick with us until the end to hear those little nuggets out with a lot of old buildings in the UK. The factory has been used in many ways over the years. It’s a grade II listed building, which means it’s well old and well protected.
However, it’s not as old as some of the other establishments we’ve visited. It was opened as a workhouse in 1861. Yes, another one. Listen to episode four, if you want more history on workhouses. And in fact, Ste came with me to the last workhouse. It’s a theme. I went over in that previous podcast about the workhouses’ place in aiding the poor in the UK. And how they came into being and how they left.
The Thackray’s Many Faces - 00:13:11:21
It’s a fascinating history, but since this is Halloween, I know you want to ghost stories, and I don’t really think there’s much point in me covering all that ground again. You can read the transcript if you don’t want to listen to the whole episode. It’s just on the website.
The foundation Stone of the Thackray Museum was laid in 1858, and the doors of the Leeds Union Workhouse actually opened in 1861. However, the building became less of a poorhouse and more of a medical facility for treating the poor. An early NHS, if you like. Much like Temple Newsam, The facility was turned into a hospital during WWI. It was renamed the East Leeds War Hospital and looked after armed services personnel who had been harmed in battle.
After the war, the building was renamed the Ashley Ward and became an extension of the new St James’s Hospital in the 1990. It was deemed unfit for modern medicine and a demolition order was requested. However, as a listed building, it thankfully couldn’t be knocked down and Parliament gave permission for the Thackray Medical Museum to be opened on that site.
In 1997, it opened its doors to the public as a way to teach people about the advances in medicine over the years.
The Thackray as a Museum
The history of the Thackray Museum and the history of the Thackery as a museum is actually attributed to Charles Thackeray, a pharmacist who opened a small family run chemists on St George’s Street in Leeds. St George’s Street is home to Leeds General Infirmary, or the LGI, as we call it. Which is what I mentioned earlier, where one of our A&Es is.
It’s the main A&E for Leeds City Center. It also houses St George’s crypt, which is an astounding charity that works with the homeless of Leeds. Give them some love if you get a chance. They do good work. The chemists on St George’s Street swiftly became one of Britain’s biggest medical companies, Chas F Thackeray Ltd. Good old Chassa.
The company manufactured drugs and medical instruments, much like an early big pharma, but with no morals. Charles Thackray’s business also pioneered the first hip replacement alongside Sir John Charnley. Many brutal procedures were performed at the Thackray Museum over the years.
THe Gruesome Amputation at the Thackray
If you visit today, they screen a very old video of an amputation, and it is absolutely not for the faint of heart. I found it really hard watching. It’s seared into my retina, and I can’t unsee it now. They basically just hacked the leg of a child with little to no anaesthetic.
I’ll post a link to the show notes of someone else visiting the museum and recording that video with their phone. The video is credited to @Mr.Miami_UK on TikTok. So give him a follow if you can get your head around TikTok. Shuch, I’m too old. This is not to be mistaken for the reconstruction that is also streamed on the opposite wall of the same operating theatre. This is a real video of an operation and it’s just awful to watch. You’ve been warned.
Finally, the Thackray Medical Museum underwent an extensive refurb in 2019, costing around £4 million. In 2020, it became a home for the COVID vaccine, and in 2021, opened its doors to the public as a museum. Once more.
Thackray Museum Today
Today, the museum has a distinctly NHS vibe to it. Lino floors, cold lighting and white walls, mostly. However, you can feel the history seeping through the brand new coating of paint. It oozes like ectoplasm. There’s no amount of whitewashing that can cover what happened here. You can feel it in the air.
Standing at reception with the brightly lit gift shop nearby, I didn’t feel the slightest bit spooked, but the minute we entered Disease Street, a section of the museum that’s been done up to emulate what a buzz bustling Victorian street would have looked and smelt like, I felt my senses tingling. Something was amiss. The Victorian street is decked out like a scene from From Hell. No, I haven’t had a stroke. I mean the film. Not your actual hell-hell. It’s very dark, it’s noisy, and it’s smelly, I believe. I couldn’t smell a lot on account of being robbed of my sense of smell from COVID. It’s kind of coming back now, thankfully, because I couldn’t drink any of the wine or gin that I’d been bought for my birthday. I couldn’t taste it. No point in drinking it.
I know I say this a lot, but Disease Street at the Thackray Museum really makes you feel like you’ve stepped back in time. It’s very interactive. You can choose a character at the start and understand their journey, which is really cool, especially for younger people. I was an old lady who killed babies by overstating them so they’d shut up. She lived to a ripe old age and died of liver failure. #LifeGoals.
There’s also some nice little details. If you jiggle the latch on the public toilet door, a male voice tells you to “sod off.” If you look in the actual toilet, there’s… It’s disgusting. And they’re just… Let’s say that the attention to detail is spectacular. So whoever the curator is right now is a genius, honestly
The Thackray museum Would Have Been a Place of Extreme Misery
After you exit Disease Street, you follow a trail of dripped blood. And if you’ve read all the plaques properly along the way, you’ll know that this is due to a young girl getting her leg trapped in the machinery of a nearby mill.
Sadly, this isn’t an arbitrary tale of woe dreamt up to emphasise how awful life would have been for the poor people during the Victorian era. It’s a real story of a girl who was mangled and had to have her leg hacked off. A regular occurrence in mill workers back then. But sure, nowadays it’s “health and safety gone mad.” I’m being sarcastic in case I didn’t come across.
These poor souls lived wretched lives where they would work for 16 hours a day, six days a week with just Sunday morning off to go to church before going straight back to work or Sunday school. If you were a child. This child didn’t get to go to Sunday school.
After exiting Disease Street, you find yourself in an operating theatre. To the right, the aforementioned amputation video streams on a horrifying loop. A small mangled leg is hacked away from the owner’s body with no finesse whatsoever. It’s heartbreaking. Presumably, the only anaesthetic would have been brandy or maybe if the infirm person was lucky, a bit of laudanum. Chances of survival were very low. While there had been leaps and bounds in medical science, the Victorian still didn’t quite understand what bacteria was or how it worked.
So if you survived the amputation itself, you might die of infection. In fact, you were probably more likely to die of infection afterwards due to dirty clothes, medical coats, dirty equipment. In fact, it was seen as experience if your medical coat was covered in blood and gore. Because it meant that you’d performed more operations and they never washed those things.
The First of the Spooky Items at The Thackray Museum
To the left, as you went to the operating theatre is an old worn, wooden operating table. A Victorian operating table. It’s made with what looks like butcher’s blocks. How very apt and here was where I had my first proper spooky experience at the factory. Maybe it was because moments before I’d watched in horror as a small human being had their leg chopped off. But something about that table made my blood run cold. There were scuff marks, deep gouges and dark reddish stains. My knees kept going all funny, like jelly as I stood looking at this monstrous artefact.
I really struggled to put into words how it made me feel. I wanted to cry. It felt like decades of pain and suffering was emanating from it. Just thinking about it now is making me feel a little queasy. All I wanted to do was get away from that horrible item and then, stumbling and feeling a bit woozy, we walked away and straight into a small room with a ceramic platform with a drain in the middle. Things had gone from bad to worse. I wasn’t entirely sure what the weird apparatus was, but both Stephen and I felt instantly creeped out.
It was cold in that part of the museum, colder than the other sections. Then we read the plaque and found out that the table was a mortuary slab. It shouldn’t have been a surprise. There was a full skeleton in that room. Bit of a giveaway, really. In hindsight. A strange, uneasy. A strange, uneasy feeling was pressing down on me and we just wanted to get out of there.
The Receptionists Had Seen Some Things
I was slightly worried at this point that the rest of the museum was going to be the same. It’s a large building, so I would have struggled to make it round feeling like that the whole time, honestly. I don’t think I could have done it. But the rest was much brighter because obviously it’s been refurbished. There was cabinet after cabinet stacked with all kinds of medical marvels throughout the ages.
There are around 50,000 medical items of historic interest at the Thackray Museum. So there’s a lot to take in. It truly was a fascinating place and honestly, I had no idea that the condom had so many iterations because they seemed to be slightly obsessed. Anyway, let’s crack on with the ghosts, because as I’ve mentioned about 20 times, it’s Halloween and I’m excited.
As usual, we chatted to the reception staff before going around the museum. They initially said that they hadn’t really seen anything spooky. Before proceeding to tell us some exceptionally spooky goings on at the Thackray Museum. When I asked if they’d seen any ghosts, both receptionists immediately said no, which made me suspicious. If you’ve never seen anything spooky in a place as notoriously haunted as the Thackray Museum, you’d kind of chuckle or roll your eyes. You know, like, just not flat out deny it like that. So I had a feeling that they weren’t being completely honest about it. And I was really glad that they did actually open up eventually.
The Ghosts at the Thackray Museum 00:23:28:11
The stories they told us were as follows…
On one occasion, one of the receptionists said that she’d been asked to work an evening because there was a ghost hunt going on. So she had settled herself in the gift shop to wait for the hunt to be over.
The ghost hunting group went on their way off around the museum, but a few minutes later she heard loud footsteps coming back down the corridor from the direction that the group had gone. Since the toilets were back towards reception, she assumed that someone had broken away from the group to take a loo break. So she got up to check that the person knew where they were going, because the ghost hunters tend to turn all the lights off to prime participants (it’s one of the reasons I don’t do it) and it can be hard to see where you’re going by candlelight. But there was nobody in the corridor. She said that the footsteps had been loud as anything, and they got louder and seemed to be coming in her direction.
She also told me that, not long ago, a cleaner had been in the building one evening just after closing. The cleaner was talking to the woman on reception when she looked up and noticed that there was someone up above on the second floor looking down at them. Which would be the third floor to Americans, I guess. And some places in Europe, I think. She pointed and said that somebody should go up there and round up anyone who hadn’t left yet. But when they searched the property, there was nobody there. The cleaner said that the figure had been dressed like a doctor and a long white coat. And after that incident, she wouldn’t clean on that floor anymore.
Most Haunted Film at the Thackray Museum
As usual, most haunted beat us to the punch and filmed at the Thackray Museum in 2015. However, what was unusual about that particular episode is that host of the show, Yvette Fielding, took two steps inside, went a whiter shade of pale, and then swiftly turned on her heel and left, refusing to go back inside. Eventually, the film crew managed to persuade her that she needed to go back in there for them to film the episode.
The other receptionist who had been there the whole time we were talking said that he often heard scuffling and felt fingers poking him hard in the back when he was working. He also said there were at least two reports of ghostly sounds, unseen hands touching guests and cold spots that leave people shivering. But as he pointed out, this is a very old building and drafts just happen.
But the factory museum does have many ghost stories and often ghost stories from people who haven’t been primed by being told that the factory is haunted, which is unusual. However, it’s true that the Factory Museum has many a well-known ghost story, and a lot of people are already aware of that when they visit.
There is indeed the ghost of a doctor, apparently, who is said to roam the halls wearing his white coat in search of his next patient. He is usually found wandering the reproduction Victorian streets of Disease Street. In that same location. There is a woman known as the Gray Lady. She wears full Victorian garb and can be seen mournfully floating through walls on dark nights.
The Thackray Museum is the Final Resting Place of Infamous Witch, Mary Bateman - 00:27:52:03
One of the ghosts of the Thackray museum is said to be that of infamous witch, Mary Bateman. While she didn’t die at the Thackray, her skeleton was handed to Leeds Infirmary for dissection after her death. And the skeleton is now on loan to the Thackray Museum. Mary Bateman’s story is rather epic, but I’ll try to tell her tale in a nutshell. It’s a sordid case of witchcraft, fraud, petty theft and murder.
Mary Bateman was born in Lazenby, near Thirsk in 1768 as Mary Harker. She was the daughter of farmers and spent a lot of time hanging around with travellers who taught her how to tell fortunes. When she was 20, she moved herself to Leeds and got a job as a dressmaker. However, she found that she actually made more money as a fortune teller, and she turned that into a lucrative sidegig.
Mary had always been very good at lying and manipulating people, and thus began the start of a 20 year crime spree. In 1793, Mary met John Bateman, and three weeks later, the pair were married. John was a simple wheelwright and he had no idea what he’d let himself in for. Within a matter of days, Mary had started stealing from other lodges in their shared building. When she was found out, she told John that she had received word that his father was deathly ill and they had to go and see him at once. The naïve John immediately left. And while he was gone, Mary sold off all his clothes and furniture to repay the people she’d stolen from who had started to threaten her. What a charmer.
Mary Bateman is a Terrific Fraudster
Fraud to Mary was as natural as breathing. Once, after a devastating fire on a different street, one that claimed many lives and left a lot of people homeless, Mary went around the streets begging for money, clothes and furniture to help those in need who had lost everything in the fire. Except that she kept all the donations herself.
Mary thrived on lies and was said to send her victims into trances when she wanted something from them, like an evil Derren Brown. As a fortune teller, she claimed that she had supernatural powers and had harnessed the power of spellcraft. She gained a reputation for being able to ward off evil spirits.
One woman, who was a client of Mary’s, was panicked when the fraudster told her that her husband had been arrested and sent to jail awaiting execution. The poor woman gave Mary four pieces of gold as payment for his life, which Mary had told her she would be able to save. There was no such prison sentence, and the woman’s husband showed up later that day, confused as to what his wife was talking about. But Mary was long gone by then with her money.
And this was not an isolated incident.
On another occasion, Mary told a female client that her husband was having an affair and wanted to leave her. But Mary could stop this from happening, and all she needed as payment was everything the woman owned. Naturally, the woman paid up. Absolutely sick of his wife’s bullshit. John left her and joined the army, but that only seemed to fuel Mary’s fire and she ramped up her antics.
The Prophet Chicken
Despite her growing reputation as a witch, she had many clients on a daily basis and was absolutely raking in. One of Mary’s hustles is one of the most bizarre things I’ve ever heard. She claimed that her chicken was a prophet and would lay eggs with predictions on them.
Of course, people had to pay a penny to see the eggs, but she did allow them to watch the chicken actually hatch the eggs out. People flocked to see this miracle and were shocked to see that chicken was indeed laying eggs that bore the message: “Christ is coming” on them. Eventually, the chicken was rehomed, but after that it never prophesied the second coming of Jesus again.
It turns out that Mary had been scratching the messages onto the eggs and then shoving them up into her chicken’s cloaca. So we can add animal cruelty to her list of crimes.
When Fortune Telling Turns to Foul Play
Somehow, Mary had become a highly respected fortune teller in Bramley, which is an area in West Leeds. She was well known for her powerful charms and divination skills. She often received requests to banish evil wishes and would tell people that they had mysterious illnesses, which only she could cure with magic potions.
So, as everyone knows, fortune telling is the gateway drug to murder.
Mary had become so proficient at extorting money out of people, she thought it high time she tried her hand at something new. She started out with two Quaker sisters who had a draper’s shop. The girls were being treated with some sort of medication prescribed by Mary Bateman for a strange disease nobody had heard of. One day they died, along with their mother.
Mary told their shocked neighbours that all three women had caught the plague and that they should stay well away from the house in case they caught it too. While everyone around was descending into pandemic panic. Mary stripped the house of every item, which of course, she kept or sold. But Mary was still not caught after this heinous crime, oh no!
And She Liked it So Much, She Did it Again
She continued to defraud people and then the urge to kill struck again. This time, her quarry was a woman named Rebecca Perigo. Rebecca was convinced she had been possessed by an evil demon, and she had heard of Mary’s power to get rid of evil spirits. Mary called on Rebecca and told her that she would sew four guineas into the possessed girl’s bed. The payment for this would be four fresh guinea notes that Rebecca would acquire and give to Mary. This, she claimed, would rid her of the evil spirit that was possessing her soul. So Mary’s money was sewn into Rebecca’s mattress.
Rebecca’s husband, William, wasn’t sure about the whole thing, though it seemed like a bizarre way to get rid of a demon. There were no crosses and a distinct lack of Bible for a start. But Mary had sensed William’s hesitation, and she decided to take the couple some pudding to allay their suspicions. Sadly, the pudding was laced with poison. Rebecca died screaming in agony, but William survived.
For some reason, it took William two years to remember that there were four guineas sewn into his bed. So he took a knife and he sliced the mattress open. But guess what? There were no guineas in there at all. Only four cabbage leaves. For two years! Imagine the smell of rotting cabbage in your bed. Like… what? How?! How did he not realise after a week that there was a strange cabbage smell in his bed? How dirty must it have been for them to not realise.
Anyway, I don’t know. Different times. William arranged to meet Mary, and when she showed up, she was arrested on sight. William had tricked her back. She proclaimed her innocence, claiming to have no idea what William was talking about. But when our home was searched, most of the items that she had stolen and duped out of people were unearthed.
Even in Prison, She Carried on Lying
Poison was also found in her home and the belongings of Rebecca Perigo. The trial of Mary Bateman in respect of the murder of Rebecca Perigo was carried out at York Castle on the 17th of March 1809, and she was sentenced to death by hanging. But there was a catch. Mary was claiming to be pregnant, and that meant she couldn’t be put to death until after the baby was born.
However, after a perfunctory check by a couple of matrons, it was determined that she was lying. Shock, horror. She was put into prison awaiting a death sentence. While in prison, she managed to dupe inmates out of money by selling them useless charms. Grabbing money till the end. Mary was hanged for her crimes three days after her trial in front of a crowd of thousands of people.
Her Corpse Was GIven to the Thackray Museum
Her corpse was handed over to Leeds Infirmary for dissection and people paid a lot of money to see her body and take away strips of her skin, which had been cured as charms. As far as I’m aware, none of these charms exist to this day. But I might be wrong. The skeleton of that witch murderess is now on display at the Thackray Museum. On Dark Nights, the evil spirit of infamous witch, Mary Bateman, is said to roam the halls looking for potential victims.
the Thackray Museum is a Hive of Paranormal Activity
So there’s something else that happens a lot at the Thackray, and that is that items are often moved. In one instance, a member of staff was sitting on reception when she heard a strange noise. It sounded like something metallic rolling along the floor.
She stood up, confused and followed the noise. She realised on the floor in front of her was an old vintage coin. It was obviously this that made the metallic noise because it was still spinning slightly before coming to a stop. The coin had clearly come from one of the display cabinets and hadn’t been there earlier.
Confused, she asked another member of staff where it came from and was told that yes, it was from a display cabinet. But not one of the ones that a member of the public could get to. It came from a disused part of the building. Not only that, there was nobody in the building at the time other than the two of them.
Did we see Ghosts at the Thackray Museum? - 00:36:01:10
So we decided to find out for ourselves if there are any ghosts at the Thackray Museum that we could see. We didn’t see any ghosts, but we did feel, hear and photograph some fairly odd things.
So in the first instance, there was the operating table and the mortuary slab, both of which gave off just this awful aura. I can’t describe it properly. I felt like I’d lost all the strength in my hands and legs while I was in that room. With both of those items, actually. It was so bizarre. But then I have to remind myself, I was recovering from COVID, so that could have had something to do with it. Honestly, again, it’s not a cold. It was awful.
Then later on, Ste and I were upstairs messing around with some of the interactive displays. We were alone in a room and were reading about condoms, obviously, because they’re all over the factory. When there came the strangest noise out of nowhere. Ste noticed straight away and said “What was that?” And I realised that I’d heard the noise too, but I hadn’t registered that it wasn’t something Ste had done. The recording quality isn’t great, and it sounds like there are loads of people around.
[Weird noise]
The recording quality isn’t great, and it sounds like there are loads of people around us when it happens. But that’s because there are videos all over the place at the Thackray Museum. I can assure you there was nobody else anywhere around us and absolutely nothing that could have made a noise like that that I could see. Nothing. We did have a look. And I searched because I thought maybe some children had come in while we were up there, but there was just nobody there.
So I’m just going to play that again so you can listen again. It’s a very long, clear swooshing noise with a crack at the end, like something hitting the floor. But nothing had fallen over. Nothing is slipped down the back of anything. There wasn’t. There was nothing that could have fallen over. Everything’s bolted down. It was very strange.
[Play again]
The Photograph was Weird Too - 00:39:01:10
It left us both feeling more than a little bit spooked. Then when we got home, I asked to send me the photographs he’d taken because I’m terrible at photography for an artist. You think I’d be good at that, wouldn’t you? And he did send me the shots. They’re all live shots because that’s how Ste has his camera set up on his phone. All except for one, which is a blurry, still image of something that looks like an orb with a dark shadow, like smoke or something coming off it. Clearly, it’s a blurry, accidental shot, but we can’t figure out how it happened or how the phone flicked into a different mode or what it’s a picture of because the two pictures either side don’t look anything like the picture we took.
I’ve tried lightning to see if I can see anything more clearly because I did take another shot with stills phone and I can’t use it because my phone’s very old and his is the new one. And it turned out I’d just taken a selfie of myself. You know, one of those where you look like you’ve got a million chins. And it was very dark. And when I lightened, I could see what it was. It was my face. But this one, there was no clarity on what it was at all. I’m like, I couldn’t see anything other than a strange demon face when I’d lightened it, which is clearly just pareidolia on my part. But it is very strange.
Just have a look and see what you think. All in all, a very odd place with a very gruesome and brutal history. It leaves you with a funny feeling, let me tell you. I’ll post the picture to the show notes as usual, along with all the other shots. So have a look and see what you think it might be.
Scaredy CAt's RATINGS OF THE tHACKRAY mUSEUM
And then I’m just going to whizz through the ratings so that I can get on with some terrifying tales of [???]
Potential ghosts seen by Scaredy Cat
This place was very strange. Despite being newly refurbished, it kind of felt like all the white paint was doing was covering up something darker that wasn’t far away at any point.
Total
3
Scare Factor
This place actually did scare me. It was broad daylight, as it normally is when I go around places. Because the ghost hunts, like I said, they turn the lights off and they prime people with ghost stories. And then they give you a candle and they try to scare people. And I just… I just don’t think it’s a very good test. You know, things have to be repeatable and testable for them to be scientifically sort of accepted. And then they have to be peer reviewed by other experts. And that’s one of the things that really gets to me is you can’t prime people like that. Obviously, they’re going to see things.
Yeah, a lot of the objects in there felt like pain and misery just surrounded them. So that added to the fear factor of everything. And that was a genuine sort of feeling, because I hadn’t read about any of the ghost stories beforehand. On account of the COVID and only do a little bit of research first. But I hadn’t in this instance.
Rating
Value for Money
It’s £11.95 each for adults and children under five get in free. There are all kinds of family tickets. So not just your average two parents, two kids. So you can definitely find a cheaper way for you and your children to see the place. And your tickets are valid for a year, so you can go back as many times as you like.
Rating
Family Friendliness
It’s great in there. Loads of stuff for kids to see and do, and it’s interactive.
Rating
Accessibility
That’s the first. The whole museum is wheelchair and buggy, accessible. Wide corridors, plenty of places to sit down for rest, disabled parking bays right outside. And they even run quiet sessions the last Sunday of the month where the lights will be up and the sounds will be down. As you can hear from the recording of the strange noise I posted as you can hear from the recording of the strange noise that I’ve just been playing, there’s a lot of background noise to contend with at the factory, and if you have sensory issues and you’re not going to a quiet session, I would recommend going with earplugs or earbuds or loops because it is a little bit overwhelming.
Rating
Time Spent
Three hours. For exploration and a butty. The cafe was a bit expensive. They always are in these places. But they need the funding, so I’m not going to complain too much.
Total
3
Beauty Spot
The building itself is very impressive, but it’s not exactly what you’d call beautiful at the Thackray. Especially not now that it’s been refurbed. And it’s very cold in there. And cold-looking in there.
Rating
Customer Service
The staff on reception warmed up after a few minutes and gave us some much needed ghost stories. The staff in the cafe seemed confused as to where they were really. But never mind. Minimum wage and all that. We’ve all been there.
Rating
Listener Stories
And now some listener stories. I’m so excited. These are so spooky.
The Man in the Mirror
So this first one is from Abby from the Cotswolds, and it’s called The Man in the Mirror.
I grew up in an old house with a lot of history. It had been passed down for several generations, and there were so many stories of suicides and a history of horrible marriages. My family has some inherited wealth, so we aren’t the typical wife beating sort. If that doesn’t sound too horrible. I wouldn’t say we were rich, but we were comfortable.
The house has a thatched roof and a garden full of bright flowers, so it doesn’t look like someone with a dark history from the outside. But then maybe it’s the places that don’t look that bad on the outside that are the real problem because nobody’s keeping an eye on them. I don’t know. Most people loved the house they grew up in, at least when they were kids. But I had no strong feelings about ours one way or the other.
I’m from a tiny village. It’s very quiet and I can see that it’s really pretty now. But I hated it growing up. There’s not much for kids to do around there. And if you’re not from the tourism industry, really loaded or retired, it’s not really geared for normal people. We run a B&B so there were always people in our house. Maybe that’s why I never really felt at home there. I was used to running around in my nightie and having my mum send me back upstairs in a panic because there were guests in. It never seemed that odd seeing so many different faces in our home.
But then I grew up with it. And winter was usually really quiet and we kind of shut everything down for Christmas anyway. Although after The Holiday (that’s a festive film with Kate Winslet, for anyone who doesn’t know) we definitely saw an increase in people wanting to stay near Christmas. One day in late autumn, a man checked in. He hadn’t booked and it was really late or it was dark outside, at least.
I was about 12. So it’s hard to remember exactly what the deal was. I think my mum was a bit annoyed that she’d have to get up and open the kitchen the next day, but they booked the guy in. I didn’t like him at all and told my mum who didn’t like him because he didn’t smile. I hate rudeness even now, but my mum’s made of sterner stuff and she just shrugged it off.
SOme People Have No Boundaries
The house is split into two with guest rooms off to the right. As you get to the top of the stairs and our rooms were off to the left, it’s really obvious which half was residential and which half public. And not just because there’s a huge sign at the top of the stairs. It says Guests, this way you can’t miss it. And nobody had ever really strayed into our home. Other than occasionally when they first went up the stairs after checking in and they were always very embarrassed and apologetic about taking a wrong turn. Saying that, I have some mad stories about guests who stay the night, but it’s all just human drama and not related to the paranormal.
The night this man stayed, I was awoken in the middle of the night by the sound of the wind howling outside. It was really coming down outside and there was a cold draft in the room. There was a smell of smoke. But there’s an old fireplace in my old bedroom. And if the wind gets up, it blows down the chimney. It makes everything smell a bit smoky. So I assumed it was that. But I felt really strange and a bit scared. But I needed to use the loo, so I got up and opened my bedroom door. I knew something wasn’t right straight away. You know, when you just have that feeling that everything is off kilter, I immediately knew that something was watching me.
I couldn’t see much in the hallway, but it looked like there was someone standing there, so I fumbled for the light switch. It felt like I did that for ages. You know, when you panic in the dark and suddenly nothing is where you thought it was. I was scrabbling at the wall when I heard a man’s voice say: “Leave it, that doesn’t need to be on.”
Which made me panic more so I carried on looking for the switch and finally found it. The light was very bright all of a sudden and I squinted, but not before I made out the shape of the strange guest. He was standing in the hallway holding a small, furry animal, which I later found out was a ferret. And that wasn’t the strangest thing. We locked eyes for a split second and his eyes were bright, fiery orange. I jumped out of my skin backwards into the wall. And as I did that, the light bulb popped and we were right back into darkness. I must have yelled because I heard my parents moving in that room. Then the man said, I told you not to do that.
Parents to the Rescue
And the next thing I knew, the other lights in the house were coming on and my parents were asking me what was wrong. But by this point, the man had gone. What followed was my mum storming over to the guests quarters and banging hard on his door. The man took a while to answer, but when he did, he looked sleepy and surprised.
My mum demanded to know why he brought a pet into our home, but he didn’t seem to know what she was saying. Without really caring. My mum barged into his room and began searching for the ferret, but it was nowhere in sight. And then it dawned on my parents that it was the middle of the night and they’d woken up paying guest.
So we really had to eat some humble pie, then, let me tell you. And I got told off. They said I’d been sleepwalking. But right before the man closed his room door again, he looked right at me and I could tell that I hadn’t been asleep at all. He knew, but his eyes weren’t orange anymore. I tried to explain to my parents, but they wouldn’t listen and sent me back to bed.
The man checked out the day after and seemed to not even remember my mum barging into his room, so we just tried to forget about it. Something changed that day, though. I started putting a big stack of books behind my bedroom door at night when we had gas in the house. I felt like the man had been coming to my room when I found him and I knew I had seen him. I wasn’t dreaming.
Did He Really Leave?
Then, about a month later, as the memory was starting to fade, I was woken up by the wind howling and the smell of smoke. I got out of bed really scared and turned my bedroom light on before going into the hallway.
I turned the hallway light on, but there was nothing there and I breathed a sigh of relief. I clicked. I quickly went to the bathroom. It was cold and my feet were freezing. I turned on the bathroom light and then I saw him. He was in the mirror staring out at me. I screamed and ran back to my room.
After that, my dad came into my room and tried to calm me down. He went into the bathroom to check just to appease me, I think. But the mirror was normal and he managed to calm me down and say it was a trick of the light. He did do something a bit out of character, though. He went and got a big crucifix that usually hung in the kitchen. It was my grandmother’s. She was Catholic, but we weren’t particularly religious and my mom’s from Jewish heritage, so we were pretty secular, all in all. He said, it would make me feel better and that it would protect me if I thought there were any more demons. I was a bit scared because I hadn’t mentioned demons to him at all, and I didn’t really know what they were back then. I propped the big cross up at the bottom of my bed and managed to drop it to drift off to sleep after tossing and turning for several hours.
More Witnesses Come Forward
I never saw the man again, but my brother who, had been a toddler at the time the man stayed with us, said that he once saw a man in the mirror in the bathroom when he was brushing his teeth. This would have been five or six years and nobody believed him except me. He didn’t seem particularly bothered by it, and I wondered if maybe he’d just heard the story of the time I freaked out in the night, but he insisted for quite a while. I asked him about it the other day and he said he hardly thinks about it, but did remember wondering why there was someone who wasn’t him in the bathroom with him.
Years later, my dad was in an old folks home and I’d gone to visit him. It was awful seeing him in there, but he barely knew who we were anymore and we couldn’t look after him home. On this occasion, he seemed a bit more distressed, the normal. So I was trying to calm him down when he suddenly looked me dead in the eye.
And when I saw him too Abby. I was stunned that he called me by my name. He often confused me with my mom, so it took me a while to understand what he was saying. And then he said in the mirror, I saw him too. He’s still in there. Then he started apologising over and over, but he was back to being very confused and I couldn’t get anything else out of him.
And That’s Where it Ends
And that’s where it ends. I haven’t seen anything else out of the ordinary. And I live in London now. My brother lives in the house now and he insists there’s nothing strange about it. It’s been done up since we lived there and looks really clean and bright, so it’s hard to remember how dingy it had been on the inside because it looks totally different.
My brother’s partner, though, says that there’s something weird in the house. He’s done a lot of smudging, which I believe involves burning herbs to get rid of evil spirits. But my brother just rolls his eyes at him and that’s my story, really. I’ve had a few strange things happen over the years, but most of the time I tried to find a rational explanation. But that one I can’t explain.
I hope you like the story. Thanks for doing the podcast. I look forward to it every month. And thanks for that. Abby What is it with bathrooms and mirrors and actually a listener may have an observation for us, but not before we hear more ghost stories.
The Clock Stopped - 00:55:41:01
Oh, I’m so excited. We have a non UK story. It’s my first one.
This one is from Michael in Massachusetts.
Hi scaredy cats. I grew up in a haunted house in Springfield, Massachusetts. We moved into the house when I was seven and my baby sister one. The house was built in the thirties. White wood with a small garden. We’d been living in the city, so it felt like freedom to me.
Everything was great for the first week. Maybe two. And then things took a turn. Some context. We had an old grandfather clock that my mom put in the hallway. It had been passed down on my dad’s side for generations. It would chime on the hour every hour, and I really hated it. But we couldn’t get rid of it because it was an antique. It gave me the creeps and sometimes woke me up at night. And I was scared of the dark, so it would take a while to get back to sleep.
But as well as that, the house also had some stuff left in it that we decided to keep. When we moved in some furniture and tools. There was a rocking chair in the living room and my mom used to sit in it to feed my sister.. And I’d sometimes hear her rocking when I was in bed. It was loud on the wooden floors.
Noise in the Night
One night I woke up and heard the clock chiming in the hallway. I checked my digital alarm clock and was confused because the time said 3:17 a.m. and the clock only chimed the hours. I kept a torch next to my bed, so I grabbed it and went to see what was wrong with the clock.
I was scared because it was very dark, but I told myself to be brave. As I got to the top of the stairs, I heard the rocking chair suddenly start up. It was really loud and fast. When my mom usually used it, it would only rock calmly, and I didn’t understand why she was furiously rocking in the middle of the night. But I figured at least an adult was up.
I slowly went down the stairs. They curved around so I couldn’t see into the hallway from the top. As I reached the hallway, I realised that the grandfather clock wasn’t making a sound, it wasn’t ticking or anything. It had stopped at 317. Then I realised that the rocking chair had stopped too, and there was no light coming from the living room.
My legs started trembling and I didn’t know whether to run back upstairs or carry on and check the living room. I wanted to shout for my dad, but when I tried, my voice came hoarse and barely a whisper. It was like I was in a nightmare. I wished at that point that I would have stayed in bed, but it was too late.
The Rocking Chair
I edged my way towards the living room. From the doorway, I could see the back of the rocking chair in the moonlight and the back of a head. I quickly flipped on the light switch and the chair started to move again. But slowly. The person didn’t turn around and I realised that they had short grey hair. Neither of my parents had hair like that.
I said “Hello,” but again, my voice didn’t come out properly, so I just ran. My parents’ bedroom was at the other end of the house on the second floor. So I ran through the house, leaped up the stairs two at a time, and burst into their room, shining my torch at the bed. They jumped out of their skin and suddenly I was crying and saying There was a man in the living room. My dad jumped out of the bed and grabbed a baseball bat that he kept under the bed.
My mom was holding me while I sobbed and trying to calm me down. But when my dad came back, he said there had been nobody there. And after that I slept in my parents room. The day after my dad discovered that the clock had actually stopped. At 3:17. So I knew I hadn’t been sleepwalking or dreaming. He rewound it and reset it and it seemed fine.
Nothing happened after that, and eventually I just stopped thinking about it. One year after, it happened again. I wasn’t awoken this time, but when I came down for breakfast the next day, my dad said he’d been woken up at 3:17 by the clock chiming. He got up to see what was going on and then he heard the rocking chair.
So he’d gone racing into the living room with his bat and saw an old man just rocking away. He said he stood there looking at him for some time. Before, eventually, the old man turned and looked straight at him and then just faded away and there was nothing there. And the clocks had all stopped at 3:17.
Some light Shed
My parents had gotten friendly with the old guy next door.
He had lived on that street his whole life, so they went over to speak to him and found out some more about the history of the house. The neighbour told them that he was wondering when they were going to ask about the ghost.
“It’s just old Frank, he said. He’s harmless.”
Apparently Frank had died in that house in the 50s. Frank had given the neighbour his watch and he still had it, even though he said it was broken. He showed it to my parents and it had stopped. At 3:17. My parents were shocked and told him about the grandfather clock. The neighbour laughed and said that happened to the previous owners too, and that Frank would be back every year at the same time. It was the time and date he had died. He said again that Frank was harmless and that was that.
Every Year After
At 3:17 on October the 13th, the grandfather clock in the hall would chime and the clock would stop. And so would every other analog clock in the house. It happened every single year until we moved out 11 years later.
I know you’re a sceptic, but I don’t know how you could explain that. We all saw Frank at some point over the years. And even now, I sometimes wake up and it’s 3:17 exactly. My wife told me to write in with the story, because it scares her every time she hears about it. Especially because she’s heard it from myself, my parents and my little sister several times.
And she can’t understand why we didn’t immediately move out when we realised what was happening. But Frank was only there once a year and it was hardly a bother.
Haunted House for sale
I’ve noticed that the house is back up for sale again and I want to message the current owners to see why they’re moving. And if they saw Frank.
Oh, you should, Michael. Oh, my God. Let me know if you do! Yeah, that would be so interesting. I’d love to know if they’ve seen anything having gone in cold. Although I think… don’t you have to declare if a house is haunted in the US? I’m not sure if that’s something I’ve just seen in horror films.
And I love the podcast. Thank you for all you do. My wife is too scared to listen, but I listen every month.
I don’t have an explanation, really, other than the same thing I keep saying about imprints in time, maybe. I appreciate that strange things happen. Strange things happen all around us all the time. But I do think at some point we’ll have a clearer understanding of what those things are, and it’ll take all the fear out of it. Like when you find out how a magician does their tricks and it seems so unimpressive after you’ve found out.
But I do not think that people come back to haunt us. I’ll accept imprints on space time, I’ll accept wrinkles in space time. But dead people – there’s zero scientific evidence to back that up. There’s a lot of things about spacetime we don’t understand. But as far as the human body is concerned, I don’t… I just don’t think we’re here after our bodies have stopped. I mean, I could be wrong. I’m often wrong.
But like, here’s the other thing. Take the Gregorian calendar. It’s an entirely manmade system. It’s not even used by all of the world now. It was only invented in the 16th century. It relates to our world, but nothing else in the rest of the entire universe adheres to the Gregorian calendar. So what I don’t understand is why a spirit who is presumably operating on a different plane is still consciously sticking to an entirely earth bound calendar that’s been in existence for a fraction of the planet’s existence. If that makes sense.
Okay. Well, the earth’s, what, 4.5 billion years old. And the Gregorian calendar is four 500 years old. So, yeah, I just don’t. I don’t understand how that’s a thing. And also time, as we understand it, is manmade. It’s all just a simple way that people mark the passage of time on Earth. In this day and age, it has no meaning in the wider time continuum or in the majority of the Earth’s entire history. And time is also not fixed. It can bend and change depending on gravitational pulls.
So yeah, I’d accept some sort of time loop or time fart or something where there might be a scientific explanation at some point. But the spirit of a dead person come back for his annual rock on the chair? No. Sorry.
Mr Mimic - 01:03:52:13
This next story is from Sean. He doesn’t say where in the world he is, but I’m assuming it’s in the UK just based on the language.
If you think back to the beginning of the episode, I mentioned I’ve been hearing my own voice whispering into my ear. Well, this one is about a mimic, so I wanted to get it in.
Sean says…
We have a ghost in our house right now and it pretends to be other people.
It started last month when our eldest daughter went to secondary school. The exact day, actually. She came home and we were asking how it went when we heard my youngest daughter shouting us from the other room. She’s only six. So we all stopped what we were doing and went into the living room. She was completely absorbed watching Paw Patrol.
When we asked her what she wanted, she insisted she hadn’t shouted us. We thought she was lying because she’s been going through a phase. But a couple of days later my wife shouts me from upstairs. She’d gone to bed in the middle of the day because she had a headache and she was asking for water. So I poured her a glass and took it up.
But she was fast asleep.
Not an Isolated Incident
It’s been happening a lot. At one point, my eldest came in and said that she’d heard the youngest screaming, but our youngest had gone swimming with my wife and wasn’t even in the house. All of us have heard it at one point or another. We’re making a point of going to find someone in our house if we want to talk to them, rather than from another room, So we know when it’s us and when it’s the ghost. But it hasn’t deterred whatever it is.
Any ideas, Emily?
Oh, it’s weird hearing me someone call me Emily. People call me Em normally, unless it’s my mum when I’m in trouble.
Any ideas? I don’t really. I think it might be some sort of audio Pareidolia. For example, when people are talking to us, we use context quite a lot to discern meaning, and sometimes we mishear people because we’ve already filled in ahead of time where we’re expecting people to say. My hearing isn’t great from years and years of going to mental gigs without earplugs. (Wear your earplugs, kids!) So I fill in the gaps fairly often, and it’s almost like phantom limb. I hear things that people have said aren’t really there. I’m And then I’ll answer sometimes and people look a bit confused. I’m like: “Oh, you didn’t say that, did you?”
And so it happens more when you know the person. So like within a family, you’re already half moving on to the next part of the conversation and you had because you know them so well. So you know what they’re going to say. So if you’re all talking at once and expecting to be interrupted by your youngest, chances are that one of you stopped and went: “Did you hear that?” And then it only takes for someone else to go: “Oh, yeah, I think I did.” And suddenly you’re all convinced you’ve heard it.
And it’s not like it’s a wild thing to claim.
You’ve heard your youngest daughter shouting. And if she does that a lot and yeah, and then, and then because it’s happened, once you’re on edge and the more it happens, the more you expect it. And I think it’s just compounded. But honestly, I don’t actually know if that’s right. It’s just a theory.
Listener Comments - 01:08:00:23
I’m adding another section here for people’s comments. This podcast just keeps getting longer and longer. I’m having to cut loads out every month now because I’ve just got so much content. So I don’t know if maybe I should make the podcast an hour. I don’t know if an hour is too long for. I’m letting it slide this month anyway… because… spooky season.
So, after hearing my childhood story of the white worm in the bathroom, a lady called Luna reached out to me on Facebook. And she said…
Hi I’ve seen your post. I’m also scared of bathrooms. Have you heard of the jinn? And that’s inn with a J and not djinn with a D. Jinn with a J are from the Islamic faith and djinn with a D belong in the Jewish faith. As far as I’m aware [this was wrong – they’re just different spellings, so I don’t know where I got that from – my apologies].
I’m not trying to scare you, but I get weird feelings when I’m in bathrooms, too. And the Islamic holy book states that evil jinns live in bathrooms. It’s the only place where prayer isn’t performed, so they can live there. It may have come out of the bath, but may possibly be the toilet.
And I hate mirrors. I want to remove the bathrooms so you can brush your teeth in your room. I do. I wash my face in my room, too. I don’t have a mirror in any room. I avoid them. But every time I move into a new house, the bathroom has a mirror and it’s stuck in the wall. I’m not preaching because I’m not religious. I don’t pray nothing. But my mom’s family is Muslim and I know that the Qur’an says that jinns reside in bathrooms because it’s unclean. We piss there and prayer is not performed. They like to live in dirty places.
I’m advising you about what you may have seen. Not at all preaching. I’m not religious and sorry if you mind, because a lot of people don’t like certain religions spoken of. But I really like to educate people on the Islamic perspective of bathrooms, because what you’ve seen is real. Certain people may not believe you, but I understand because it says jinns reside there.
So when people tell me that they feel scared at bathrooms or have seen something, it makes sense to me.
Thanks for Your Comments
Thanks, Lena. So I am an atheist, so I don’t pray in any room. So if that is the cause of an unclean room, then all of my rooms everywhere I’ve ever lived are unclean because I don’t have a religion. I don’t believe in a deity.
[So I’m first.] I will not be scared off in my own home and I’m not changing my routine for anything. Brushing my teeth and washing my face in a different room because I have an irrational fear of bathrooms is absolutely not happening. It can sod right off. It’s also been 32 years and I’ve only seen it once in all that time, so I’m not overly concerned.
I’m also not scared of mirrors, and if I was, I’d have to be scared of every reflective surface, which would be inconvenient. I can see myself in the wine glass right now. Actually that is scary. Yeah, you’re right.
In terms of religion, I’m no more offended by the Muslim faith than any other religion. That being said, I’ve never come across a single organised religion that made sense to me. I am an atheist and sometimes Church of Satan ish type I. I don’t agree with everything they say, but I do quite like their perspective on life. The Church of Satan do not believe in Satan. But that is one of the reasons I don’t believe that the strange things that happen to some of us are caused by the souls of the dead.
I don’t believe we have souls in the sense that our personalities fly out of our bodies when we die. We’re clusters of synaptic impulses and hormones. And once they [sign up] to stop working, it’s game over. Like a computer being shut down for the last time. I would be more inclined to believe in demons and souls, though, if pushed.
Thanks for Your Comments
So there are theories like the multiverse theory, which includes parallel universes and universes layered on other universes. And we know so little about space and where we came from and what we are that I could accept a dark, upside down-ish parallel universes, if enough evidence was presented to me. And so far, all of this is speculation.
However, do I think the thing in the bathroom was a jinn? Not really. I think an overly tired little girl had a hallucination. Quite why or why it’s affected me for so long, I don’t know. And that’s why I started the podcast. But I am trying to remain open minded about all of it.
This is the first explanation actually that gives me a reason for why it might have come from where it did though. So you never know. Like I always say, I could be very wrong. These are just my opinions.
Never Allow The SUpernatural to Stop You From Living Your Life
Luna. I am concerned about how scared you are of all of this. I really think you should get yourself a bit of counselling. And I’m not trying to be patronising here. It might put some of this stuff into context. You are entitled to your beliefs, of course, But when something is affecting your life like this, I would recommend therapy. Most people use the bathroom from all different backgrounds, look at themselves in mirrors just fine and without consequence. So I think you’re safe to move your toothbrush back into the bathroom and you don’t have to rip your bathroom mirror out. There’s nothing in there. It’s just a reflective surface.
And I know there’s a load of folklore around mirrors, but I think it’s because you’re looking yourself from a different… like when someone takes a photograph, it looks different to how it looks in the mirror. And I don’t know, I think there’s something scary about seeing the room twice but reversed.
You know, I can understand why people are scared of it, but things like this should not be affecting you. Your beliefs are your beliefs. But it shouldn’t be affecting you like this. I really hope you’re okay. But yeah, if it is bothering you that much and you think prayer is going to fix it, go and have a pray in the bathroom. What’s it going to do? You know?
Thank Yous, Credits and Other Animals
Anyway, this episode was a lot of fun. I think this is been my favourite episode so far. It’s also been very disturbing at times and I can’t quite get over the weird cold feeling I get every time I think about that chuffing operating theatre table.
I do love Halloween, though.
September to December is my all time favourite time of year. It’s so perfect for spooky times and there’s so many celebrations and cheerful things happening. So the show notes for this episode are on the Scaredy Cat Skeptic website. Go to ScaredyCatSkeptic.co.uk and you’ll find all the links to all the big hitting podcasts on there. You can listen anywhere, even the [not big hidden pod catchers]. It’s everywhere. I haven’t found a platform where it’s not available just yet. Although I believe Stitcher is a goner, which is sad.
On the website you’ll also find ways to listen to all the episodes with full transcripts, photos and slideshows for each from the last two episodes. I haven’t done one for the earlier ones. The slideshows are hosted on YouTube, so subscribe to us on there. Photographs, including the weird, creepy, blurry one, are at the top of the shownotes page. Along with the names of everyone mentioned on the podcast.
Your SHout
Thank you to everyone who’s downloaded and reviewed and rated and all that kind of stuff. Honestly, every little helps. So please do rate and review us on whichever platform you’re listening to. unless you have some issues, in which case, feel free to reach out to us and let us know what’s bugging you and what we can do better.
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Visit the website for more information. ScaredyCatSkeptic.co.uk And don’t forget that’s skeptic with a k. There’s a contact page for you to submit your stories or you can email us at ScaredyCatSkeptic@gmail.com. We’re on all the socials.
X – We are @ScaredySkeptic, but if he starts charging, we are out of there. I’m absolutely sick of the drama, honestly. And it’s just full of absolutely hateful shit now, because he fired his fact checkers, so I’m not even sure I want to be associated with it in anyway. Especially because [this is] controversial and breeds conspiracy theories. And I very much want this to be kind of a safe space for discussion and not not somewhere for fear mongering. And I feel that’s where X is going.
But anyway, Instagram is easy. It’s just @ScaredyCatSkeptic
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Our YouTube channel is ScaredyCatSkeptic6937 for some reason. Give us a subscribe and please do all the liking and subscribing and all that stuff you’ve been doing and that will help us to keep going.
Thank you to Steven Rodriguez for suggesting the Thackray Museum, coming with me and providing me with many laughs when I felt very sick. Still, what a strange place Thackray Museum is. I can understand why so many of you recommended it to me now. That’s the first place where I instantly thought: “I’m not sure how I feel about this.”
Special mention Tom Bramall for the concept art for our Scaredy Cat Mascot Maud.
And our theme tune is by Diamond Tunes.
See you next time. Happy Halloween Hauntings.
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Your Thoughts
Have you ever visited The Thackray Museum in Leeds? Did you see anything spooky?
